It doesn’t work.
You cannot call yourself a Christian and a Feminist at the same time, not in today’s society. Once upon a time feminism may have been about the right for women to vote or to work but not anymore.
So why doesn’t feminism mesh with Christianity? Let’s see what some of the leading figures of modern feminism have to say…
” It is important for us to encourage women to leave their husbands and not to live individually with men… All of history must be re-written in terms of oppression of women. We must go back to ancient female religions like witchcraft” – The Declaration of Feminism , November 1971.
……. Witchcraft….. How lovely.
“God is going to change. We women… will change the world so much that He won’t fit any-more.” – Naomi Goldenberg, Changing of the Gods: Fem…inism and the End of Traditional Religions (Quoted at beginning of From Father God to Mother Earth)
I didn’t realize God changed. Did you? Oh, what was that? Riiiight, it says in the Bible that God is un-changing. Awesome. God: 1 Feminists: 0
“By the year 2000 we will, I hope, raise our children to believe in human potential, not God” – Gloria Steinem, editor of ‘MS’ magazine.
What do you think is more trustworthy? A never-changing, all-powerful God who cares about you and loves you? Or the “potential” of your crazy neighbor down the street who owns five dozen cats? Or maybe you want to believe in the “potential” of all those amazing politicians….
“No women should be authorized to stay at home and raise her children. Women should not have that choice, because if there is such a choice, too many women will make that one” (Feminist pioneer Simone de Beauvoir, Saturday Review, June 14, 1975).
Okay, this one gets me, because ten years from now I want to be at home, taking care of my first baby, not having to worry about work and who’s taking care of my little girl or boy. Do not take away my rights to take care of my future children at home.
“We can’t destroy the inequities between men and women until we destroy marriage. ” — [Robin Morgan, “Sisterhood Is Powerful,” (ed), 1970, p. 537]
Destroy marriage…… Destroy marriage…. that sounds pleasant. Doesn’t that sound pleasant all you women who are married or want to get married? This woman was insane….
“The most merciful thing a large family can do to one of its infant members is to kill it” -Margaret Sanger, founder of Planned Parenthood, in Women and the New Rage, p.67
Whoa. Whoa. That’s murder no matter how you spin it.
“Marriage has existed for the benefit of men; and has been a legally sanctioned method of control over women… We must work to destroy it. The end of the institution of marriage is a necessary condition for the liberation of women. Therefore it is important for us to encourage women to leave their husbands and not to live individually with men.” – The Declaration of Feminism , November 1971
Ladies, do you feel that marriage only benefits men? Because I’m not so sure. I mean, I’m not married, but I cannot wait until I get to marry the love of my life and live with him. And he’s going to take care of me in a way that I could not take care of myself. I’ll be happy and cherished and loved and I can’t think of a better life I will benefit greatly from marrying him.
I’m going to stop with the quotes there and say that no matter what, feminism is NOT the answer. God is. Whatever evil there is in these areas cannot be fought with feminism. When I see feminism I see the devil working against God, against women, against children, and against the sanctity of marriage. It breaks my heat to know that so many women buy into this.
So please, do not tell me that you are a feminist and a Christian. It doesn’t make sense.
Dance In The Rain 
You poor, brainwashed girl. I don’t even know where to begin to point out the flaws in your arguments.
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I don’t see any flaws in my argument. All I did was quote these feminists. It’s their words.
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The feminists that you are quotung are the extremists. I proudly classif myself as a femunit. I do not hate men. I do not belI’ve that marriage should be detroyed. How can you say that feminism works against women? The true point of feminism is to be treated equal. That does not mean that we want to be treated like men, it means that we want equality. Plain and simple. Take abortion for example. I’m aware of your views on abortion and I both respect and understand them. However, being pro choice doesn’t mean you advocate FOR abortion. It means you advocate for the right to do what you will with YOUR body. Religion and the government should not have a say in when and how I decide to reproduce. I have a 5 month old son. I had him in college and I’m having to put things off because of that. I don’t blame him. It’s not his fault I got pregnant. I love him with my heart and soul. I chose not to have an abortion. I CHOSE. Have you ever heard of bodily autonomy? I support women’s making their own choices about their bodies. I wouldn’t say having an abortion 4 months in is okay. In fact THAT is despicable. That is where it turns into murder that only the most vile pepole are capable of. How can you even use the term “got herself pregnant”? That’s silly. Last I checked it takes two to tango. You have based your opinion on feminism because of what the extremists have said. All it takes is common sense to know that those women are out of their freaking minds. Keep in mind I’m only using abortion as an example. There’s are many other issues.
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As I have said before, I know there are reasonable feminists. But these were the the head of the feminist movement at some point. When you say feminist these are the ideas and the craziness that people think of. Radical feminism is truly eevil. I have said, in either this post or the previous, that I support basic, classic feminist views, such as women being allowed to vote and allowed to work. And I’m all about basic human rights.
Concerning abortion, unborn babies can feel pain 8 weeks after conception, possibly earlier. An abortion at any time is horrible, but after at most, two months, it becomes pure cruelty. I recognize it takes two people to make a baby, but women do have a choice whether or not to. Abstaining from sex if your not married, birth control, asking the guy to wear a condom (or two). I realize that sometimes God just has a different plan for us and it’s to get pregnant, but if you weren’t trying to and it happens, then there’s obviously a reason and you shouldn’t dispose of the baby because it’s inconvenient. A baby is not a pen mark, you can’t just wash it away.
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Oh and please excuse any major Grammer mistakes. I’m using my phone and it’s kind of a derp derp.
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No problem, sometimes I get typing too fast, look back over it after I post it, and literally bang my head against a wall…
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http://freethoughtblogs.com/biodork/2014/02/20/should-we-be-forced-to-donate-blood/
This will explain what I was getting at when I brought up bodily autonomy. I’m getting carpal tunnel from typing so much.
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I’m sorry, but if you’re pregnant, that baby is now a part of your body. It is attached to you and it needs youto live. You already made the choice to get pregnant, and if it happened by accident then maybe you’re supposed to have a child. What about the babies bodily autonomy then? It’s a human being. It’s alive. You can’t make the decision for it to die. That’s called murder.
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Wea ring two condoms will actually make it more likely for them to break and get pregnant. It’s because of the friction. There are many subjects that you really have no idea what you’re talking about when you talk about them. I’ve seen in other comen’s people saying it’s because of your age, but I disagree. I’m only 20. You and I are not far apart in age at all. It has more to do with experience than age I believe. However I completely understand why you feel how you feel. I’m not trying to change your mind. You have every right to your opinions and beliefs. That’s feminism. Accepting others for who they are, regardless of race, religion, gender, or creed.
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Thank you for being respectful, but that is not what modern feminism is. That is not what the leaders of feminism are saying. Those are basic human rights and common courtesy, but feminism has grown into something much more ugly and horrific.
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Actually, that is what feminism is. Feminist “leaders” don’t have a say in MY feminism. You don’t get to decide what feminism is because you don’t like what the widely known feminists say.
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Or maybe you just believe in basic rights and common sense and want to call it feminism. The feminism movement, the feminism that rallies behind the women I have quoted, the feminism the world sees is this.
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With all due respect, all of the sources you quoted for feminism (except for possibly the Gloria Steinem quotation because I can’t find a date for that) are at least 30 years old. The world has changed. Feminism has changed. Just as there are different extremes and mindsets of Christians, there are different mindsets and extremes of feminism.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/feminism
I am a Christian and a feminist. I believe women should be treated equally. We should receive the same wages. We should not be given special treatment or treated as any less than the way men are treated. Feminism, at its core, is not man-hating. Feminism is the right for us to vote, to receive the same social, political, and economic respect as men.
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The quotes may be a little old, but these women are still revered by the feminist movement, still looked upon as the heads of feminism.
As I pointed out in another post, women do receive the same wages as men for the most part, the statistics the media throws at us are not correct.
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The women quoted ushered in the modern (3rd) phase of feminism which has little in common with the birth of feminism. Equality has been achieved and those who are claiming otherwise have to manipulate the statistics to do so.
But let’s just look at the quotes and see what connections we can make to life today.
1). Single women/rewrite history/embrace witchcraft- Society has completely discarded the value of men as husband/provider and father. Since the 2-parent, mother and father home has been proven to be the best environment for children to thrive, society has definitely suffered as a result of this feminist goal being achieved.
You would have a hard time arguing that history has not been rewritten and is currently undergoing revision. Sit in any public classroom and you’ll be informed that “history” is now perception rather than historical facts. It’s laughable.
Wicca and similar religions have been so embraced that they are now catered to by branches of our military while Christianity is being shoved out.
I would say feminists have met these goals so they were more than an extremist view.
2). Humanism vs God- Clearly, humanism has taken over our society. Goal met.
3) stay-at-home moms- Obama, our own POTUS, recently said exactly the same thing. If the gov’t is pushing it, I’m pretty sure you can say they have succeeded here as well.
4) destroy marriage- Have you read current marriage statistics? The U.S. has made a mockery of the covenant of marriage. Goal met.
5). Abortion- The use of murder to dismiss responsibility has been fully embraced, flaunted, and taxpayers foot the bill. In NYC, more black babies are aborted than born. Much to our shame, goal met.
These women are feminism….and they used the movement to alter American in a Godless way.
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Reblogged this on Dance In The Rain and commented:
This is one of my favorite posts. If you didn’t read it the first time around, please read it now. 🙂
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My feminism is equal pay for equal work, the right to own property, the right for women to take out a loan w/o a male countersignature, the right to an education, the right to vote, the right to chose where & how women work, all of this & more stems from a feminism that is compatible with Christianity. We would not be better off w/o feminism.
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As I’ve said, a lot of that is classic feminism, but that has changed. Women have all the rights you mentioned, and I’m all for all those rights. I have issues with modern feminism.
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First of all, I don’t follow your blog, so if you have already answered the question I’m about to ask, you’ll excuse me. However, I do remember reading a comment a while ago where you said that men and women are not equal, and shouldn’t attempt to be. I am a Christian, and although I don’t read the Bible as much as I should, I have never found anything anywhere in it that says that men and women should not be equal. In fact, I have found a few places that strongly imply the opposite. So I was just wondering if you could help me out a bit by giving me a few references to look up that back up what you have said.
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Sorry about the confusion, what I meant was that men and women do not have equal roles in relationships and different areas in life. Obviously God views as all as equals as humans and deserving of forgiveness. The Bible tells women to submit to their husbands, which feminists take offense to, saying that we shouldn’t be serving our husbands. Submission doesn’t mean waiting on them hand and foot, it’s more like recognizing their God-given authority.. It also tells husbands to love their wives, to respect them, and with that balance, there is happiness and unity in God. If you would like verse references, I can get those to you tomorrow, but right now it’s late where I live 😛
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Thanks for the clarification. And, yes I would still like some specific references. It’s interesting that you brought up the verse about wives submitting to their husbands and husbands submitting to their wives. If I recall correctly, it also says somewhere around there that they should, “Submit to one another in love.” It makes sense to me that the submission should go both ways, as does the love. Surely you’re not saying that the husbands should love their wives, but the wives don’t need to love their husbands. If the love goes both ways, why wouldn’t the submission? And if what I say is the case, it would make sense that the reason Paul (I think it was Paul, at least.) pointed out specifics to the men and to the women, is that the women were neglecting to submit to their husbands, and the men were neglecting to love their wives. Take the example of a ballet class. Let’s say you have a class of students at the barre, and they’re doing a combination. If one of the students were doing only the footwork but letting their arm hang limp at their side, and another student was doing their arms perfectly but not moving their feet at all, you would most likely remind the first student to use their arms, and the second student to use their feet. See, when you have two people who are both supposed to do two things, and each of them neglects one of the two, you correct each one accordingly. So if when Paul was writing to the church, he knew that the men had stopped loving their wives and the women had stopped submitting to their husbands, he would naturally correct each party on what they had recently been failing to do. I know this comment may seem a bit redundant, but I’m not the best when it comes to communicating, so I wanted to make sure what I meant made sense. lol
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Oops, I probably should have replied instead of writing a new comment. haha Just to add something real quick, I don’t lean either way with the feminism thing, so it’s not like I’m trying to prove you wrong or anything. So don’t take what I’m saying as a threat. XD
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danceintherain97, you seem to be completely disregarding Anonymous 2’s comment. These are real people he/she’s talking about. What you keep insisting is Godly marriage, just doesn’t work for them. At least, that’s what I got from what he/she said.
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I’m not disregarding it, I’m explaining why I think it can still be a Godly marriage.
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I am so confused with this website. Sorry about that. XD
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Thank you for that, Anonymous 1. And also for your comment about feminists’ perspective of this blog. I tried to post something similar a while ago, but it was never approved.
danceintherain97, I wonder if you would see things the same way if you had literally curled up in physical pain (this coming from a largely non-emotional 20-year-old female) after listening to your father tear himself apart countless times because he felt inadequate in meeting standards of “manliness” that have nothing to do with how God has created him. Like Anonymous 1 said, these are REAL PEOPLE who love God and want to live out His design for their lives.
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It is still a Godly marriage because both of them love God. That’s it. I’m not looking for your approval here. I simply thought that maybe hearing someone’s personal experience in this area would show you that people and situations are more complex than blanket legalism allows for. Good thing the God I serve isn’t about legalism, but love! His love is bigger than it all. It’s why I’m still a Christian. If it was just about rules, I’d be out of here. Believe me, I’ve been deeply hurt by people who claimed that God supported their actions. But whether it was me or them who was wrong, God’s grace and love is there to heal me. And when the wounds are too deep to be healed quickly, He’s there for me to lean on even as I keep moving towards Him. That’s why I cannot support rules like this that serve to control and wound because they are contrary to how God created someone.
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Ephesians 5:22 tells wives to be subject to their husbands. Love is not mentioned there. 5:25 tells husbands to love their wives and verses 28 and 29 add that they are to love their wives as their own bodies, he who loves his wife loves himself, nourishes and cherishes as Christ does the church.
1 Peter 3:7 tells men to live with their wives in an understanding way, as with someone weaker but showing honor as a fellow heir of grace.
Titus 3 encourages women to love their husband and children.
The verses in 1 Corinthians 7 that you referred to regarding husbands and wives submitting to one another are specifically talking about sex. Of course they should submit to one another and no one else! 😊
So, wives are told to submit and encouraged to love. Husbands are told to love as a picture of Christ and the church but the only way they are told to submit to their wives is sexually.
While it may seem right to us that it goes both ways, Biblically speaking, that isn’t the case. As someone married 25+ years, I can safely say that a Biblical marriage, one in which both take their role seriously, is a joy-filled marriage. The wife is not unimportant or disregarded but cherished and protected. The husband is not domineering or dictatorial but confident and respected. My husband listens to me and considers my opinions and advice, but the ultimate responsibility rests on his shoulders. I trust him with that responsibility.
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Thank you for that. I will definitely look into those verses more. I’m curious to know, though, what you mean by a few of the things you said in the last paragraph.
Firstly, you said that the wife is cherished and protected. Did you mean that in a physical way, or in all other aspects as well? When I become a husband some day, I sure hope my wife cherishes me just as much as I cherish her. Regarding protection, the husband is usually more biologically able to physically protect his wife. We all know that. There are exceptions, though, and in those situations, whichever of the two is more able, should be the one protecting, right? But when it comes to emotional protection and such, I believe that the wife should always be there for her husband just as I believe he should always be there for her.
Second question: confidence and respect. With this one, I’m more just curious to know what all you meant by it in general. Confidence to me seems to be more of a personality trait than a role in marriage. If the wife is generally more of a confident person than the husband, is there anything wrong with that? No, of course not. That’s the way the Lord made her. As for respect, is it just me, or is the wife deserving of respect as well? No one likes to not be respected. To me, respect is something everyone deserves, regardless of whether they are male, female, married, unmarried, and anything else. Humans deserve respect. It’s that simple.
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Yes, both parties are deserving of respect of love and husbands and wives protect each other, I believe., just in different ways. The wife protects the husband by keeping him happy, loving him, taking care of his household. The husband protects her by loving her, providing the household, and physically proteting her as best he can.
My biggest point is that men and women have different roles in life, not always equal ones, though as humans we are all equal in God’s eyes.
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In response to the Anonymous comment below (it wouldn’t let me reply to it directly): I really appreciate what you said about confidence being a personality trait, not a gender-specific characteristic. Some of my main reasons for advocating equality in marriage are my parents’ personalities and how they affect their relationship (both are Christians, btw). My dad is a wonderful, Godly man and a great father/husband. However, his personality does not naturally take charge or make absolute decisions. My mom feels like she needs to submit to his authority, even when he is not exerting any. In situations relating to household needs, she often is more fully aware of what needs to be considered in making decisions (she typically spends more time at home). Still, she looks to him to lead in those areas. He knows she is more aware of what is needed, so he trusts her to decide. This results in both of them continually backing down to each other and makes the decision much more stressful than it needs to be.
This becomes a much deeper and more personal problem, though. The church my parents attend is really big on men “stepping up” into their role as leaders. Since my dad isn’t naturally a leader, this wears on him. He doesn’t realize it, but it’s obvious to me and my siblings. He beats himself up for not being “strong-enough” as head of the household. My dad is probably the most loving and serving man I know, and it hurts me so much to see him disregard the strengths God has given him because he doesn’t match what he is told a “Godly” man ought to be–a leader. I know many other men as well who are gentle-spirited and not natural leaders. What good is there in telling men to take authority in their homes when it so often contradicts the personalities God has given them?
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In defense of the church, it is Biblical for men to be leaders. It is very straightforward about that issue. Now, they can be leaders in different ways, and there are some men who just are not born leaders, but wives still have to submit to their authority, not without discussion though, ever.
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Whoops, the comment I’m responding to is above, not below 🙂
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No problem.
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I agree that men and women have different roles. Two people trying to do the exact same job just doesn’t work. Inside a relationship, the man needs to do some things and the woman needs to do other things. But this is where we disagree. I believe that if two people love each other and balance each other out, they would make a beautiful marriage, regardless of which roles each of them take. There are many women whose personalities fit what you are calling the man’s role. And at the same time, there are many men whose personalities fit more what you are calling the woman’s role. Are you going to say that they don’t deserve a marriage because they don’t fit the standard you have? I say God’s gift to each individual is more important than any human’s opinion of a “Godly marriage.” And I’m not saying that marriages that do fit what you’re saying aren’t good. They work out great, and God bless them! I just don’t think every marriage is supposed to look the same. If a man wants to stay at home and raise his children and not have a job, and his wife wants to have a career and support their family, there is nothing wrong with that.
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No, every marriage doesn’t look the same, and if a man and a woman love each other then of course they deserve marriage. However, God created the man to be just that: a man. And he says man has authority. It might be up to the man to assert that authority, up to the woman to respect it, or a little of both. I realize that this can be hard and sometimes more discussion and agreement is involved than others, but I believe men really have the final say, because God has put them at the head of the household.
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I don’t think these comments ended up in the right order… This website is a bit confusing. haha But thank you so much, other Anonymous person! That is exactly the point I was trying to make.
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One more thing before I get off for the day: It’s a bit inconsiderate to tell feminists that they don’t know what they stand for. There are countless non-Christians that think Christianity isn’t what it actually is, and if one of them told you that your Christianity isn’t real Christianity, I don’t think you’d have much respect for their opinion. I could be wrong, but I’m pretty sure most of the feminists who read this stuff you write, feel the same way. And I know I’m not going to convince you. I just think it would be wise for you to talk about something you actually know about.
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If someone told me I wasn’t a real Christian, I would ask them to show evidence from the Bible. That’s what I’ve done for everyone who has argued my points on here. And just because I’m not a feminist doesn’t mean I don’t know anything about it and I can’t speak out against the sins the movement stands for.
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I guess you aren’t aware that you owe a lot to modern feminism. For example, your ability to voice your own opinions in a blog, or the fact that you can take dance classes, even teach them, without being considered a whore (dancers were commonly considered loose women, especially by the Christian community. I don’t support this, I used to dance myself.). Sixty years ago you would be taught to cook and clean, and discouraged from attending college. If you were raped, you would not have access to a rape crisis center. In fact, it would be completely legal for your husband to rape you. So maybe, instead of labeling the modern feminist movement as useless, you should be a bit more grateful.
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That’s not modern feminism anymore though. Women have rights now, yes, but they’ve taken feminism too far, as you can see by the quotes, and if you listen to Planned Parenthood.
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danceintherain97, I agree that your approach to someone questioning your faith should always be evidence in the Bible, but being a stickler for logic, I cannot see how that same reasoning can be carried over into a feminism debate. The only way it would, would be to find evidence of true feminism in the feminist equivalent of the Bible, which to my knowledge does not exist. Also, being completely honest, and knowing that you are someone who does not believe in things that I very firmly do (speaking in tongues, for example), I apologize, but I find it very difficult to respect your opinion. Not to say that I don’t respect you. As I said earlier, all humans are deserving of respect.
To snowychickadee: Considering the fact that you have been married longer than I have been alive, I respect your opinion greatly. Your marriage clearly works wonderfully for you, and praise the Lord for that! However, when you toss random, out of context bible verses out there, I have a hard time taking everything you say seriously. And it might be nice if you let danceintherain97 speak for herself instead of jumping in and answering questions that were addressed to her.
Anonymous 2, my heart goes out to you and your parents. I will most certainly be praying for them as well as you.
Now for all four of us, I have to say that although I disagree with the majority of this blog, I’m glad this conversation happened because it has encouraged me to grow in my faith. After all of this, I can actually say that I am a feminist. And, although that was not the intended outcome of this post, I am confident in it, and I trust God to correct me in whatever way He knows I need it. He is so much bigger than all of this, and my prayer for us all is that we would genuinely seek out His truth and that we would not be upset if He shows us that we were wrong, which in one way or another, and for all of us, I’m pretty sure He probably will. Having said all of that, I will now respectfully remove myself from this conversation. God bless you all. 🙂
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Modern feminism is the belief that men and women should have equal rights and equal treatment. That’s it. Because the feminist movement is made up of millions of individuals, there are countless variations of applying this belief. Yes, I’m sure some women use it to support witchcraft, but that does not make witchcraft an innate part of feminism. Also, for many women, their feminism applies to wanting to be able to choose when they have a child. I do not support abortion, because I believe life should be celebrated no matter how convenient its arrival is. But the problem remains that for many women, specifically teenagers, a pregnancy brings shame from family and friends and takes away many of their chances for education and work. That’s what I believe needs to change, and feminism supports me in this. The US is the only developed nation with no laws to provide paid maternity leave. That’s a problem, because it prevents women from being able to support themselves as well as men can. You once wrote something similar to “girls who have sex should have to live with the consequences of their actions” (I don’t remember if that was this post, your other anti-feminist posts, or a comment–sorry). Life should NEVER be seen as a consequence. I don’t believe that life should be terminated, but it certainly should not make it next to impossible for the mother to better her circumstances either. There’s also the issue of sexual objectification, and the fact that qualities stereotyped as “feminine” are seen as weak and often shameful. Women are taken less seriously in business because they are stereotyped as less logical than men. Emotional boys and men are often ridiculed or simply not respected. Feminism supports them! It asks that the strengths of every personality would be recognized and respected. That’s why feminism still matters. That’s why feminism is not synonymous with sin. That’s why feminism is in line with how Jesus treated women: He was (is) a HUGE advocate for lifting up the downtrodden and destroying social perceptions of inequality. And inequality does still exist, whether you see it or not.
Whew, that was long-winded. Anonymous 1, thank you so much for your gracious participation in this conversation. You said it well: God is so much bigger than all of this! It’s guaranteed that I’m wrong about SOMETHING I believe. Thank God that His grace is sufficient for my shortcomings!
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